This is a brief excerpt from correspondence I had with some people in regards to the recent actions that the Government of Indonesia, under compulsion from the Islamic Political Parties,  took against the Ahmadiyyah community.

It was reported in the Jakarta Post, and on the ‘Indonesia Matters’ Blog that Ahmadiyya Leaders in Indonesia ‘caved in’ to pressure from national political and religious leaders and diminished the status of Sayyidna Mirza Ghulam Ahmad al-Qadiani (qaddasa Allahu sirruhu) as demanded by them.

Below is a brief excerpt from som correspondence I partook of, on the Blog.

I shall respond to each of the points raised by PleezPonder briefly, as I am not a fan of 3-month email correspondences about theology and religion – I’d rather talk it out face-to-face!!

<blockquote>Muslimsunrise had to lie to counter points raised in my message. For the benefit of eaders, let me clarify further that:</blockquote>

By the sheer Grace of Allah, I have not lied, and nor do I need to lie.  I have merely explained the concept of Prophethood as I have understood it from the writings of Sayyidna Mirza Ghulam Ahmad al-Qadiani (as).

<blockquote>1- I have not usd false rhetoric but Sunrise has lied. Please click the link, its official Ahmediyya Jamaat’s link and the quotation I posted is from the their First Khalifa Mirz basheeruddin Mehmood who is also the son of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiani. </blockquote>

Again, I have not lied.  By ‘false rhetoric’ I was referring to the typical way in which non-Ahamdis use certain quotes out of context, something which has been typified by the person above (aka ‘PleezPonder’).

Firstly, Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmood Ahmad was the second, and not the first khalifa of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad al-Qadiani (as) – but this may be just a slip of the proverbial pen by PleezPonder!

Secondly, and more importantly, The fact of the matter is that many traditional and classical scholars, way before Ahmadiyyat and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad al-Qadiani (as)  have held that to deny or reject the Mahdi is Kufr and is rejection of Allah and His Messenger.  One prime example of this is the great historian and Jurist Ibn Khaldun, who wrote the celebrated text ‘al-Muqaddimah’. 

He undertook an extensive study of the narrations about the Mahdi and cites traditional scholars and their opinions about those who deny the Mahdi.  In book 51 of the Muqaddimah, he writes about the Fatimi (the term used to refer to the Mahdi as the Mahdi was to be of the descendants of Sayyidah Fatimah (ra) – another qualification fulfilled by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as)) thus:

<em><blockquote>Abu Bakr ibn Abi Khaythamah went excessively far, according to that which as-Suhaili transmitted from him, in his collecting the hadith which have been related concerning the Mahdi, so he said, “One of the strangest of them in isnad is that which Abu Bakr al-Iskaf mentioned in his Fawa’id al-Akhbar with an isnad to Malik ibn Anas from Muhammad ibn al-Munkadir from Jabir that he said, “The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, ‘Whoever denies the Mahdi has become a kafir, and whoever denies the Dajjal has become a liar’.” And he said, “In The Rising of the Sun from its Place of Setting is the like of it, I think,” and this is enough for excessive behaviour, and Allah knows best about the soundness of its path to Malik ibn Anas, because Abu Bakr al-Iskaf is suspected of forgery by them (the scholars of hadith).</blockquote></em>

So whether you follow the above hadith, or even accept what Ibn Khaldum has written, the fact is that <strong>IT IS A VALID OPINION IN ISLAM THAT TO DENY THE MAHDI ENTAILS KUFR.</strong>

And I am of the opinion that it is this belief and the ideology which was being referred to by Sayyidna Mirza Ghulam Ahamd al-Qadiani (as) and Hadhrat khalifatul Masih II, Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmood Ahmad (ra) when they stated what was quoted by PleezPonder in his previous post (above).  I do not know whether the quotes are accurately pasted, but I wil give the benefit of the doubt, notwithstanding my rebuttals of his arguments in this post.

Thus the quote which PleezPonder is referring to is consistent with the opinions of SOME, and by no means ALL of the traditional Islamic Scholars.  Modernists such as PleezPonder are quick to reject such scholars, but they shall not affect the works of the ‘Ulamah as they are nothing compared to them!

<blockquote>2- Here mirza qadiani himslef saying and I quote:
“God Almighty has disclosed to me that whoever has been apprised of my advent and does not accept me is not a Muslim and is accountable to God.”
(The Essence Of Islam – Volume 4 – Page 87)
Weblink to the book : </blockquote>

This has been rebutted above.

<blockquote>3- The saying of last prophet Muhammed pbuh that Muslimsunrise referred to talks about ESSA IBN MARYAM not Ghulam Ahemed qadiani Ibn Chiragh Bibi. </blockquote>

Well, this is the main bone of contention between you and us – we believe Sayyidna  Mirza Ghulam Ahmad al-Qadiani (as) to be the advent of Sayyidna ‘Isa (as) ibn Maryam in spirit and not in form as the latter is impossible because Allah has stated in 30 different verses of the Qur’an that ‘Isa (as) has died a natural death – and many Ahadith allude to this specifically, as well as the opinions of traditional scholars (as if the the Qur’an was not enough for you guys!!)

For those who don’t know much about this, it might be good to pause and reassess the fact that the same way in which Sayyidna ‘Isa (as) was rejected by the Jews for being the Messiah, similarly the Muslims have rejected sayyidna Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) – both groups of rejecters were waiting for bloodthirsty avengers and none came!!

<blockquote>4- When Quran and Ahadith say that Muhammed is the last of prophet, there is no question of any new nabi (zilli, or broozi etc) These terms were coined only to make way for false nabuwwat of Mirza Qadiani.</blockquote>

This shows your lack of islamic Knowledge – these terms are not new – they are found in many old and classical books written by classical Islamic scholars and awliyaa – the Kashful Mahjub of Sayyid ‘Ali Hujweiri, which is the oldest persian treatise on purification of the soul, mentions ‘Dhilli Nabuwwat’ – there a numerous other examples.  Such books were written and such terms were used way before Sayyidna Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) was even born!!

Lets read some books before we make outrageous comments!!

<blockquote>5- I quote again from Mirza Qadiani’s book:

“God named me Mary in the third volume of Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya. I was nurtured for two years as Mary and was raised in a womanly seclusion. Then, the spirit of Jesus was breathed into me just as was done with Mary. Hence, I was considered to be pregnant in a metaphorical manner. After a period of several months, not exceeding ten, I was made Jesus out of Mary by the revelation embodied in the last part of the fourth volume of Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya; and thus, I became Jesus, son of Mary. But, God did not inform me of this secret at that time.”

Ref: is available on (Kashti-i-Nuh, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 19, P. 50; Kashti-i-Nuh, P. 46-47)

That’s how Mirza qadiani claimed to be Essa Ibn Maryam. Now, can you use your mind and see this man?</blockquote>

This is one part of an explanation – I suggest people read his explanations fully and completely rather than basing his whole explanation of something on 6/7 lines!!

<blockquote>6- It is another lie by Muslimsunrise that they accept Muhammed pbuh as last prophet. I repeat, its a lie that they believe in Muhammed pbuh as last prophet. If hey do that then why do they not say it officially at their website? and why do they need to call Mirza Qadiani a prophet?

Please think about it.</blockquote>

You can repeat it as many times as you like – doesn’t change the fact that I believe in the Prophet muhamamd (saw) to be the last prophet sent by allah.

And regarding your question:

<blockquote> and why do they need to call Mirza Qadiani a prophet?</blockquote>

It is because we follow the Prophet (saw) as fully as possible – thus if He said ‘Isa (as) would be a Prophet – we don’t question it like you – we accept – “Sami’na wa ataa’na”.

Wassalaamu ‘ala man ittaba’il hudaa…
Peace be upon those who follow The Guidance